Quite the denouement. Welcome to the tiny band of people who are frustrated every day by the assholes in government. Unfortunately I’m also an eternal optimist, so I keep believing we can make a difference while being regularly pissed upon. I refuse to give up on this country. It’s too special. But the Democrats are worse than worthless and the Republicans worse than useless. The problem is, I haven’t yet found any party that’s worth supporting, only individuals - such as Tom Coburn of Oklahoma.

Who knows. Maybe our merry band will increase and one day we will own the world.

I think you may be writing off the major parties too quickly. If Bush is incompetent, does that prove that every Republican or Democrat currently running for President must be incompetent also?

Part of the reason that third parties hardly exist in the US is that each of the two big parties is actually a coalition of different factions which, in some other countries, would probably be separate parties. The big problem with the Republicans (aside from the issue of Bush’s personal ineptitude and unwillingness to listen to expert advice) is that over the last couple of decades the religious-fundamentalist faction has become acsendant over the libertarian-small-government faction. There are signs now (such as Giuliani’s popularity among Republican voters) that the religious-fundamentalist dominance may be weakening. Since in reality no third-party candidate is actually going to be elected President in the foreseeable future, it is better to throw such weight as one can into helping the rational elements in the major parties to take back control of those parties from the nutcases and extremists.

Josh, read Giuliani’s book, “Leadership”. I think you’ll be impressed. He IS a leader. But the real key to taking back America is winning at the local level.

Infidel,

No, there is no flaw in the logic. In fact, that is the very same logic I used to justify my vote for Bush in 2004 (which as we all know, an Ohio vote for Bush was a pretty valuable item in the GOPs arsenal that year). The problem is that whether you support rational or fringe elements within either party, you still end up with the same bullshit in the end–a government funded by and run like a corporation without any soul or culpability to the denizens from which it draws its power according to the founding documents of its very existence.

This is the essence of cultural hegemenony, whether you’re a fighter or a facilitator, you can’t go outside the box. The illusion of rebellion is what keeps the boundaries of the box in place. Even Neo in the beginning of The Matrix, despite his already legendary status as a revolutionary, had no concept of what true revolution meant, which involved stepping outside the matrix completely.

The two-party voting system in America is the Matrix and the lie we agree upon is that fluctuations of power and personal philosophy between the parties will actually produce a modicum of change that will benefit the lives of the majority of people. It’s a ruse and it must stop. And the only way it can stop is when individuals start voting for individuals again.

Parties be damned–this next election will be one of individual merit and true grit. It had better be, or else we’ll all be fucked properly.

Josh, from how me became aware of each other, you know where my beliefs lay on politics.

For the rest of you, voting 3rd party is not a waste. Voting for either of the collusive twins IS a wasted vote. Why? Because neither party is working for us; they are working for themselves or their party. They are so polluted at this point and time, there is no going back unless a third contender joins the game. Once people see a viable person running who has a chance, the other two parties will have to stand up or step aside. Why? Because a large portion of Americans are sick and tired of getting screwed and ARE looking for other options. Unfortunately most people look at Fox and CNN for their news and are completely unaware of other parties candidates. The collusive twins have effectively placed roadblocks in the way of third party candidates. They do not have the finances or other opportunities available to them as the majors do.

Where all this babbling is going is simply, no vote for a third party candidate is wasted. One vote at a time is what it’ll take for the thrid party (or independent) candidates to get that magical 5% mark. After the next presidential election if a third or indie candidate gets 5%, they will receive funding from the country (kind of like a payback for campaign expenses which the majors always get) or in state elections, it will make the party be automatically officially on the ballot in the next election.

If anyone in the 95+ % of Americans thinks the jackass or the elephant is working for their best interest, they need to open their eyes and look further than the news papers and TV news.

The way the gov’t has no interest in helping the average Joe American is only going to get worse than the patheticness it is at now. The way to fix that, and it will take some time and won’t be an overnight solution is to vote for the best candidate. But there’s more to it than that because if the best candidate is one of the two majors… again the pollutedness of the parties makes that best candidate not the best candidate. Of course after a buncha time in power, any party will be polluted… including the Greens or Libertarians if either should every get anything beyond a local office.

Look at it this way: if there were only two gasoline companies, they could pretty much charge whatever they want and you have no choice…. pay it or walk. That’s where we at at in politics.

I obviously won’t vote for the jackass or elephant at this point; the only difference between them is whether their gonna dump their seed in my ass or mouth. I want my country to be a representative gov’t once again.

Analogies may illustrate a point well, but they are not arguments.

There have been countless cases in the last few decades where it did indeed make a great deal of difference which of the two parties was in power. You’re too intelligent not to realize this.

Whatever it is that a given person objects to about the two dominant parties, voting for a candidate outside those big two will have no effect whatsoever upon the problem. It never has, never will for the foreseeable future.

Infidel, I just don’t see it as an apology, but more of a mission statement. I’m saying I’m done. I’m jumping off the Republican ship before it’s totally sunk. I gave them almost seven years to make an impact. They haven’t. They are not the party that is going to bring an end to blood shed (meaning fighting the war with a goal in mind and the sack to do what it makes to bring that goal to fruition) and neither are the Democrats. The Republicans are not the party that is going to dismantle the Internal Revenue Service and replace the tyrannical tax structure with something sensible and neither will the Democrats.

And most importantly, neither of these corporate political entities will lift a finger to legalize and tax the social and medical use of marijuana so neither of them deserve my support any longer. I will find the candidate with the talents, skill sets and ambition to accomplish these three objectives and I will vote for them. If my candidate loses, then its the fault of those who continue to vote like they are told because they delude themselves by thinking they actually have a choice choosing the puppet on the left or right when they really need to vote against the guy holding both puppets.

“But the folks on the other side of the aisle are a bunch of ball-less, soul-less, Bill Murray-in-Caddyshack-slurred-mouthed, douche bag idiots who couldn’t relieve a hard on with girl on girl porn and an ocean of astroglide” just blew the whole piece of writing. Blew it apart, so much so I was sorry I’d started to read in the first place. Probably a weak moment, going for the gonzo - and failing, terribly. Not to mention incredibly off-putting to a woman. By several measures, you failed writing. Writing didn’t fail you. Integrity is difficult to maintain, sentence-to-sentence, but one really has no cnoice.

Good luck!
Zo